Chastity via Hypnosis success

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male_pet
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Re: Chastity via Hypnosis success

Post by male_pet » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:57 pm

I'm glad to take the time to get the information out there...since there is very little posted online on the topic. I could have really used some pointers when I began, so I hope others can learn from my experience.

One last suggestion for Tom, and any other lurkers.

This is a great video that explains some basics about how to listen to hypnosis MP3 files.

10 minutes spent listening to it can do much to get you pointed in the right direction. It's not hypnosis, just explanation and a bit of demonstration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqYo3gVQQiM
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Atone
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Re: Chastity via Hypnosis success

Post by Atone » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:44 pm

male_pet wrote: One last suggestion for Tom, and any other lurkers.
Thank you for all the information, I am really enjoying following this discussion.
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male_pet
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Re: Chastity via Hypnosis success

Post by male_pet » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:42 pm

male_pet wrote: It's not hypnosis, just explanation and a bit of demonstration.
To be technically accurate, that Youtube instructional contains some pure and very elemental hypnosis. The thing with the hand is a great example of what hypnosis is all about. It's not "hypnosis" in the manner of the swinging watch, but it is hypnosis in how your mind can make a simple suggestion surprisingly real.
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Tom Allen
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Re: Chastity via Hypnosis success

Post by Tom Allen » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:44 am

mp - if you can stand another question...

One of the things that I enjoy about wearing a device is that I can become very aroused, and that aroused feeling stays with me for a while; the idea that I can't do anything about it fuels some of that, I'm sure.

So, how does that work with a hypnotic belt? That is, you've explained that you can become aroused, but that any temptation to masturbate is stopped by a feeling that you could be doing something else. I get the impression that it's like being distracted or uninterested. Do you continue to be aroused, even though you can't do anything about it, or does the arousal itself subside? Also, if I were wearing an actual device, the knowledge that I can't touch myself can be exciting in and of itself. Does the idea that you "can't" masturbate still keep you aroused, even though you might temporarily feel uninterested?

For example, Mrs. Edge enjoys keeping me aroused. So, one evening, we mess around, I pleasure her, and she invokes my hypnotic belt. Would I still be aroused after we've finished and she's gone to sleep? The next morning? That would certainly be the case if I were wearing an actual device, so I'm just trying to get some idea on how that distraction works.
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male_pet
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Re: Chastity via Hypnosis success

Post by male_pet » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:05 pm

Tom,

I'm glad to answer questions. In fact, your questions have forced me to think through and verbalize some of my reactions to the hypnotic chastity experience. Writing up the answers has forced me to clarify my thinking and allowed a few of the puzzle pieces to fall into place.

The hypnotic chastity belt doesn't affect arousal, horniness, desire, etc. Nothing diminishes or impedes your arousal through hypnotic chastity.

The effects are very subtle. At first, I highly suspected that I was just playing along with a charade, because nothing felt different at all. The primary change was that when I went to grab myself with sexual intent, my hand would stop short. In the file, the suggestion is that when the belt is on it's like your cock and your hands have different magnetic polarities and your hands just fly away when you try to grab. In my case it's like my hand just hovers millimeters from my cock,and I can go no further. All the desire is there, it's just that my will seems to short circuit when I try to grab and masturbate. I want to, nothing is preventing me, but when I will it, it seems I lack that little bit of mental oomph to close the circuit and make it happen. Frustrating? You bet! Then of course, minutes later I will go to the bathroom, fish my cock out my underwear, grab it, aim, tuck, and zipper like everything is normal.

The desire and ache to masturbate still remains strong. At first, I would be cruising Tumblr porn or various websites and would reach down automatically, only to find myself stopping short. After a while, I stopped bothering to try (well, for the most part). It's like if you are testing the security of a physical belt - at first you wriggle and pull and slide to try to get free. Once you have tested it to satisfaction, you stop bothering to try escaping. That doesn't mean you wouldn't really, really, like to get unbelted for release...it's just that fighting it is futile. I have stopped reaching into my pants, but that doesn't mean I'm not aching to rub one out.

After 2 months of completely regulated cumming it's pretty clear to me that I am not just playing along with a charade. Before hypnotic chastity, I was good for about a week on the honor system. I have characterized some of the experience in terms of procrastination or distraction because there seems to be something else going on a subtle level. In physical chastity, I always felt compelled to defeat the security eventually, through pull-out, squeezing through silicone, or whatnot. In hypnotic chastity, I don't feel that need to try to defeat the security. Could I try to lawyer the rules by trying a Fleshlight, or humping some sex aid? In theory, but the idea doesn't have strong appeal. That is why I use the terms procrastination and distraction, because those are typical forms of self-defeating behavior. I can just barely detect the hint of a similar process with the chastity - although in this case my subconscious self is defeating my impulse to want to cheat to gain release. The way my brain seems to be accomplishing that is by offering up a series of rationalizations to do it later, or not follow through, and by making the idea of defeating the hypnotic chastity sort of boring instead of enticing or exciting.

Again, let me state for the record, it doesn't *feel* that way. Everything feels completely normal. For two months I haven't been seriously tempted to circumvent the hypnotic belt. That is *not* normal (at least for me). It is not obvious why, but the procrastination/distraction/boredom mechanism is my explanation for what seems to be occurring behind the scenes. My desire for sex and arousal isn't being affected at all, but my interest in subverting/escaping/cheating hypnotic chastity does seem to be dampened.

I should also note that there is nothing mentioning a procrastination/distraction/boredom mechanism on the chastity file. On one part of the file, there is some guided imagery where you go to the control room of your brain, and there are all sorts of knobs and switches. Chastity is a setting on the Sexuality control panel, and the file suggests that you turn the switch to ON (thus activating the on/off trigger and the "magnetic hands"). My guess is that the procrastination/distraction/boredom mechanism is the way my subconscious chose to implement the "chastity mode." I tend to be a procrastinator, so it makes sense for me. Your brain may do something differently behind the scenes that works for you more effectively.

Bottom line: you will get your fill of arousal (and more) in hypnotic chastity!
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anominus
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Re: Chastity via Hypnosis success

Post by anominus » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:32 am

I do not have any experience with chastity hypnosis, but I can chime in on hypnosis in general: I apologize for the length. I thought I could write a couple of paragraphs, but I just had too much to say.

If you read the "professional literature", you'll notice there are a few camps:

a) all hypnosis is role play / nonsense (popular version: Penn&Teller's "bullshit" episode on hypnosis)
b) hypnosis is a power dynamic (parent/child, teacher/student, priest/believer) and all follows from there
c) hypnosis is a way to access the subconscious (implicitly defining subconscious, usually)

(an option such as, "d) ZOMG, hypnosis is mind control!" is not really a camp that includes anyone who has ever tried to study it)

There isn't really a scientific way to decide between these options, but a) seems extremely unlikely if you've seen a few successful demonstrations of hypnosis, and there is some "scientific" evidence that it isn't: (People in trance are regularly able to make their brains do stuff that most untranced people are unable to; but it's not scientific in the sense that there's no objective measure of trance "depth", and eventually sceptics point out that "in both cases you talked to the person and he did something; in one case you talked longer with a monotone voice and specific content, but that doesn't mean anything". And from a scientific point of view, they are right).

It is my opinion that c) is closer to the truth, and b) is incorrect, in the sense that power dynamics give access to a "subconscious", rather than explain things on their own.

So, what is this subconscious mind thing? The thesis that I find most useful (not necessarily true), has been described by Julian Jaynes in his book "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind". It's an interesting piece which is not a light read. His basic idea is along the lines of:
  • we actually have two of "us" inside us
  • they generally both receive the same input (visual, auditory, tactile, etc.)
  • but there is one which is almost constantly in control of the output, and this is what you perceive of as "yourself", also the inner voice you control.
  • communication between the two "yous" is done through a very slow and narrow channel, that often takes the form of images or words, or a memory that appears suddenly
  • schizophrenia is a malfunction of this communication channel, that makes thoughts appear to be sound from the outsides, rather than through this channel.
Jaynes argues this through historical records and modern psychology results. Another book, Left In The Dark starts from there and postulates a much crazier thesis. The book is either the work of a crackpot, or a crazy genius - so I would recommend reading it with a grain of salt or outright as science fiction, but for the purposes of explaining hypnosis, I think his model is right; it is at the very least, helpful:
  • the two "yous" are actually competing for control, even though they cooperate most of the time
  • what you perceive as "yourself" is specifically the left brain, and is much better at control, and excels at logic, order and mother-tongue (and not much else)
  • the "other you" is specifically the right brain, and is better with emotions, memory, empathy, creativity, languages learned after age 10 or so, and you-name-it, but it is also quite naive and often childish. Also, it is very associative, and not very good with negation as a syntactic concept.
  • the other (right) "you" has often asserted control of the "output" (motor functions, but also speaking) when you "space out" or otherwise find that you can't really recall the last few minutes.
  • the other (right) "you" occasionally asserts control when it sees the need to act, but this is much more rare (if you've ever felt "I don't know why, but I suddenly felt I need to do xyz and turned out it was a godsend that I did", that would be such a case)
  • yourself (left "you") tends to take credit for everything, and also rationalise it. You might really believe the reasons yourself (left) came up with, even if they are demonstrably false
  • both selves, having grown up with the same external stimuli and sharing thoughts in some capacity, tend to have a very similar view of the world, similar ideals, similar fears. Similar, but not identical. If they drift too far apart (which does happen), there's upset and feeling of internal conflict.
And all this was a lead in to this (which is how I see hypnosis)
  • hypnosis is a way to hold a conversation with your "other" (right) self. Since it is mostly naive and childish, it will play along with a lot of things that yourself (left) will perceive as immature or senseless or useless or even frightening, like temporarily blocking access to memory, or creating a feeling of touch when yourself (logically) knows it is impossible.
  • the reason why you can't be made to do something that would harm you, is that the other "you" has just as much sense of self preservation. The reason you might do something "yourself" doesn't want to do, though, is that the "other" you is more naive and childish and might not think this through. (Though, they do communicate, and "yourself" will assert control if needed)
  • going into "trance" (that is, "yourself" quiet watching from the side or dosing off, "other you" in charge) is something you can (and should) learn how to do yourself. It is very similar, perhaps essentially equivalent, to meditation. But like meditation, it takes a lot of practice, and there's no map for the destination, so some people wander for months (or years) without getting anywhere. A skilled hypnotist can be your guide, and after a few sessions you will likely find that you can get there on your own. That's what self hypnosis is.
  • One way the hypnotist gets "yourself" to quiet down and leave the controls for the "other you" is by boring it and/or keeping it busy (almost all voice recordings you will find use this method), which often takes 20 minutes or more when the subject is inexperienced. It usually involves some counting task for "yourself", or some body monitoring task, and redundant words in a slow pleasant monotonous voice. Eventually, "yourself" doses off leaving the stage for "other you".
  • The other way, mostly practised in person (and often involving some physical aspect, like a touch, a push, a handshake), is by inducing confusion in the subject. With most people, "yourself" will temporarily (and apparently, actively) give the reins to "other you" for one or two seconds until it sorts out the confusion - and during this time, "other you" seems to happily accept cues, including a request to assert more control (which is usually given with the word "sleep", but there's a whole lot happening there that I"m not going to go into here). If you find this interesting, you can youtube or google "rapid induction", "instant induction", "8-word induction" "shock induction" and "pattern interrupt induction". When you watch these movies, remember that the magic is not in the actual words, but in the setup and the timing. In audio recordings, confusion is usually done by having different recordings for the two ears, or by having a confusing or "rapid-fire" content
  • "learning" / "practicing" following suggestions is actually two distinct activities: i) training "yourself" to not constantly try to assert control over everything; ii) training "other you" to assert control. This is how it's different than just "wishful thinking" or "role play": If yourself just "lets go", then nothing active will happen (on one hand), and ritualistic behaviours will happen if you do not exert self control (which requires nontrivial effort - and, as has been recently shown - usable energy in the form of blood glucose). If your "other self" just tried to assert control and there was a real fight, it would lose (and it knows that), so it doesn't. By practicing both things at once, you make it possible for the "other" you to assert control only when needed, e.g. when your hand goes to your dick.
So ... what does that have to do with chastity?, Well, I did get there in the last sentence of the previous paragraph :) if you skipped to here, go reread that. So a few more things - I'll drop the "two yous" framework above for the rest:

I mentioned rationalising. You'll realise how much you do that only with statistics, as male_pat noticed. Assuming it is effective for you (and there's no reason it wouldn't be), you'd probably find yourself sending your hand to your dick, realising it didn't actually get there, rationalise it with "hey, I didn't really want to go there in the first place, I need to look at a few more tumblrs right now", and assume everything is normal. In one demonstration I've seen (in a hyponsis workshop), the instructor used a rapid (5 second or so) induction to put into trance one of the participants who claimed he cannot be hypnotised; that induction ended with the guy lying peacefully on the floor with his eyes closed. The instructor then told him "you will stay here until I ask you to wake up", and proceeded with the workshop. After about 5 minutes, he lightly tapped the guy and said "wake up". The guy sprang up, and said "oh, I wasn't tranced/hypnotised at all. It just felt good to keep lying on the floor there". The discussion that followed convinced him that: i) he did not really want to miss even 5 minutes of a very interesting workshop, and he never just decides to lie on the floor. ii) if it was indeed so nice, why did he spring up when asked to wake up (and not, e.g. get up slowly, or take another minute)? He eventually admitted something out of the usual happened. I see people rationalising things every day, but this was a striking demonstration of how easy it is to fool oneself without serious introspection.

(This may make sense if you remember your dreams vividly) In some senses, the effects of hypnosis on your reasoning are sort of dream-like; Dreams often have their inconsistent logic which makes no sense whatsoever if you gave it a second of thought - but somehow, while dreaming, you can be aware of a lot of things without noticing these flaws, and you often rationalise around them while still in the dream. Hypnosis manages to apply the same "logic bypass" to waking moments. Things may look obviously stupid from the outside ("what do you mean you can't touch your penis?") but somehow it doesn't make no sense (yes, that's a double negative there; not a positive; saying "it just makes sense" is not the case). And you'll rationalise it away in no time.

Some people (estimates are about 5%-10%) find it easy to go very deep very easily, and are also able to hallucinate visually and tactilely on demand. Those lucky bastards do not count me among them, and it seems neither Tom nor male_pet are members of this group either. However, with sufficient practice and a skilled hypnotist, most people can supposedly get there. I didn't get there, at least not yet.

I reiterate that I do not endorse nor believe neither Jaynes nor Wright's theory of the dual mind in general. Both are weird, crazy, full of holes, and hard to test. However, for the purpose of explaining hypnotic phenomena, they provide a much, much better explanation than any other "theory of the mind" that I've been able to find (in fact, the only theory that is compatible with all hypnosis observations that I'm aware of). If you have the time, read Wright's book as if it were science fiction - that is, suspend your disbelief long enough to read through the ideas; resume disbelief at end if so desired; there's a free pdf download although you should pay him if you can afford it and find it interesting.

Finally, I quickly reviewed the leeallure site. She has a free mini-induction there called "Seven" on some pages, and "5-7-9" on others. She generally uses the "boring/numbing" style of inductions, but the "Seven" one uses slow confusion/overload and you'd want to listen to it immediately before other inductions (by lee or anyone else) if you're too analytical for the numbing inductions as is (that is, if you find that an induction makes you analyse your reaction to it instead of getting your consciousness numbed). If you do listen to it, play some background music at the same time. Seems she planned to add it but forgot - and she references it in the induction (so to keep your analytical mind at bay, just add the missing ingredient).

That was much longer than I expected. Thanks for bearing with me, and I hoped this was helpful.
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male_pet
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Re: Chastity via Hypnosis success

Post by male_pet » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:40 am

Anominus,

Nice info in that post. You are spot on about the rationalization and the logic bypass. '

You might find The Corruption of Reality by John F. Shumaker to be interesting.In the book he argues that hypnosis, religious worship, and some psychopathologies are all grounded in disassociative trance states. It is a much less radical version of what Wright seems to be arguing, but it requires a lower degree of suspension of disbelief.
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Tom Allen
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Re: Chastity via Hypnosis success

Post by Tom Allen » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:45 pm

mp and anominus - thank you both for taking what had to be quite a bit of time to think about this subject, and then to write it down coherently.

mp - I've already emailed Lee Allure for some information, and she was very prompt and courteous in her response. I'll let you know how the first stage turns out.

anominus - Jayne's book has been on my "to read" list since, umm, 1978 or so. I was a Psych major in college, and I remember discussing the concepts from his book during that time. I was reminded of it not long ago, and had wondered if it was still relevant 30+ years later. I guess it still is.

I spent part of this morning doing some research into hypnosis. I looked into it briefly about 10 years ago to help with some medical issues at the time, but it didn't seem to work out. I'm minded to give it another shot, especially if I have some success with the audio files I downloaded.

Again, I appreciate the work that the both of you put into describing what goes on.
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anominus
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Re: Chastity via Hypnosis success

Post by anominus » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:11 am

tom,

You're welcome. Although I've had this thoughts in my head for a long time, it was mp's post (and your questions) that actually prompted me to make them coherent and put them down in writing.

Jaynes' book is not a light read; in fact, I found the first 80 pages or so really daunting, but I'm glad I didn't put it down. It is extremely interesting, and it gets more flowing and enjoyable after that (at least, it did for me). It is just as relevant - perhaps even more so, when you consider that since, umm, 1978, guys like Dawkins have been banging on the "religion is a mass psychosis that's the elephant in the room, and nothing makes sense about it" drum. They are just as right, and just as ignored (at least that aspect) as it was in 1978. I think it makes Jaynes' theory (however incomplete and full of holes) even more relevant, in contrast with the (lack of) credible alternatives.

However, Wright's book (left in the dark) is a light read - from following your blog and tumblr and this forum, I would guess you can read it in the time it takes you to write a new post, or do your daily tumblr scan for a couple of days. It is entertaining, weird, and occasionally makes you think that he completely loses it (such as when using Kylie Minogue song lyrics to demonstrate some spiritual insight). That's why I recommend reading it with a Science Fiction mindset - it claims to be science, it is so far fetched it might as well be fiction. And yet, it is insightful, and gave me a better model for hypnotic phenomena than any other "serious", peer reviewed or otherwise well regarded description - including Erickson (grandfather of modern clinical hypnosis and most other kinds as well) and his students. (I'm not saying Erickson didn't have a good model - I'm sure he had one better than I could reach in a thousand years. I'm just saying I wasn't able to form a model consistent with my observations and having any predictive capabilities from his descriptions).

> I looked into it briefly about 10 years ago to help with some medical issues at the time, but it didn't seem to work out. I'm minded to give it another shot, especially if I have some success with the audio files I downloaded.

While hypnosis and trance are very natural states, making them useful and fun for you is not an easy task as one might think. However, collective experience appears to be that -- once you've been there, it is much easier to walk that path. So, getting your first positive hypnotic experience, whether that is from lee allure, Paul McKenna, or a local hypnosis show where you go on stage, would make a world of difference - and if that does happen and the circumstances warrant it again, do consider trying it for medical reasons again as well.
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Re: Chastity via Hypnosis success

Post by betheball » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:17 pm

Very interesting thread here.

Been lurking for a while on this. And interested in this topic, as I've been travelling quite a bit for work recently, and haven't had the opportunity to "lock up" (with all due respect to others out there, my travel schedule hasn't been able to include the challenge of plastic locks, KH photos, and trips to various airport bathrooms to lock up or unlock. So, we've just been taking a break, or in most cases, the "honor system". Of course, the honor system works fine, but it does leave a lot of time for edging, which feels fine, but not in the spirit of things, and when away from your KH, being on the road, feels a lot like being on the road...)

So, anyway, came across this thread. Enthralled with the concept, and somewhat bewildered by all the science. But gave a few "freebies" a shot. They worked...a little. I mean, the SIP worked, but it was hard to tell if I was role playing, or under, or just having fun. But I found the clips both relaxing, and a bit addictive (well, there are triggers in there that make you want to do this again...so, something's working, right?)

On a whim, jumped up and went for the recommended money shots. Deep Dark, and Chastity (based on the threads above, and well, that's why we're here, right?). I would say that neither worked worth a darn...at first. However, they were both attractive, and what fun is a paid audio clip if you don't give it a few tries.

Well, here we are a week into it, and I can report the following. Haven't felt this relaxed in years, and the chastity thing seems to be catching on in a big way. In just the last few days, went from an easy sense of stroking, then stroking, but not quite able to "climb the orgasm ridge", to an amazing internal struggle every time I try to apply the kung fu grip to an erect or even interested hard-on. At first, there would be the "fly away", but that would only occur as I got close to the edge. Now, it's pretty quick. Travelling gives me a bunch of time to do further re-hits of the audios at night. And each one seems to build upon the other. Have yet to cum, which at a week plus, is nothing in chastity dog years. But not being in a device, yet not being able to take it out for a walk is wayyyy up there on the frustration and chastity scale. A drippy, been in a device for a month type sensation. I'm sure that will fade a bit, but not yet.

I haven't yet figured out the transfer. That is, I've yet to put together the request to migrate from Lee to my keyholder. In some ways, I want to be sure that all is working well before making the request. I'm a bit concerned that she'll freak a bit on this new toy. But also quite hopeful that she'll embrace this "no-device chastity".

Couple of questions for Male Pet: (and thank you for bringing this topic to light)

Any suggestions for cross the bridge from Lee to my KH? I know you said it went fine, but how did you start THAT conversation. I think she will be a bit weirded out and unbelieving to this - I know I was. I'd rather not engage her to go through this herself just to understand, although I guess a dualing "stop in place" contest would be interesting, in a quiet sort of way.

Also, from somewhere in one of the sessions, there's a trigger to "make Lee happy". Any ideas of how one does that? I've been researching, but welcome any suggestions. As well, what is a program? that's an idea that's in there somewhere, but I can't find much on the website that describes what my "chastity program" is. It's great not knowing, but not even sure what I don't know.

Also, I would welcome perspectives on additional audios or Lee toys to pick up. I loved the cocktail one - that one probably set the hook, as well as the snappy response and the paid ones (dark deep sleep and chastity). Of course, there are triggers to make me crave Lee's voice, and I get that. But where to now?

And in return for you help, I offer you this!

:)

thanks!

btb
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