Journey is up to date. Sorry it took so long.

[Mr Pickle]

My journey is finally up to date.
From here on I will keep it up to date as it rolls out.
What done is done. But the future is still being written so any advice is welcome and I will tread carefully towards my (hopefully our) goal, once we work out what it is.
I think I might be on the right track now. More a voyage of discovery than a journey I think?

We are (after 18 years) still quite smitten with each other. I dont want to spoil this. However I'm positive we could both benefit greatly with a little experimentation.
I feel we are missing out on something.

My wife is adamant she has no kink in her or room for it. Nothing that isn't "normal"
But this clearly isn't the case (as you may see in the last pages of my journey)

My wife doesnt want me to hand over control of anything, but also doesn't seem to like not having control of some kind.

Any suggestion, chat or attempt at reasoning is usually shut down before it begins. But it seems shutting up and letting things fall into place might be working.

My wife doesnt make sense to me? And I don't make sense to My wife

Onwards to the breach

[TwistedMister]

No need to apologize, your Journal is primarily for *you*. The rest of us are just voyeurs.

My wife doesn't make sense to me? And I don't make sense to My wife

Some years ago, a 'pop' author wrote a book- 'Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus' or something like that. Sometimes, it can seem that way.

[Schnoff]

Yeah that book, as I understand it, basically says “here are the gender roles society has created, and, they’re innate, not just created by society”. I disagree with that notion.

A lot of folk don’t know how to talk about sex and feelings openly. That’s a vulnerable way to speak, and that can be profoundly uncomfortable.

[Tom Allen]

Yeah that book, as I understand it, basically says “here are the gender roles society has created, and, they’re innate, not just created by society”. I disagree with that notion.

You can disagree with the idea that it's innate, but the authors do make a strong case for how to manage relationships *within that paradigm,* and have had some success in doing so.

[cshorts]

Since the conversation about “Men are from Mars” is continuing that though the book was written for a popular audience, it’s author, Deborah Tannen, is a serious and well-regarded scholar (a linguist).

[slave d]

cshorts is that a cunning linguist ??

MsM’s ld

[Schnoff]

Wiki claims "written by American author and relationship counselor John Gray, after he had earned degrees in meditation and taken a correspondence course in psychology", and I have no reason to disbelieve that.

@Tom Allen , you got me there, I have no data either way on whether that book has been helpful, and if so, how that compares to an approach that doesn't stereotype gender so heavily.

We may ... want to move this to a new thread, if we're going to continue debating the merits of this book .

[cshorts]

OMG! So sorry. Aging memory betraying me. Yes, “Men are from Mars” is by Gray and I would agree, he’s a pop writer.

I was thinking we were talking about “You Just Don’t Understand”, which *is* by Tannen. Similar topic, but Tannen’s work is based on years of scholarship (here and others) and as I recall (I’ve read both but many years ago) her advice is thus more grounded and less sensational.

Here’s an Amazon book blurb:

“ Deborah Tannen's number-one best seller revolutionized the way men and women talk - and listen - to each other - at home, at work, and wherever the communication gap between the sexes can lead to troublesome misunderstandings. The problem dates back to childhood, when boys and girls learn to use language in distinctly different ways; years later, their adult efforts to talk often place them at cross purposes - even when both are sincerely trying to communicate. Dr. Tannen illustrates how the best intentions can go painfully awry between spouses, family members, co-workers and friends.”

Sorry for the mixup!

[Tom Allen]

OMG! So sorry. Aging memory betraying me. Yes, “Men are from Mars” is by Gray and I would agree, he’s a pop writer.

Whoops, I'm guilty, too. I had confused John Gray with John Gottman.