Why Chastity For Us?

[Dev]

Jimi,

I think your problem is that you keep equating a life of not having regular orgasms (or not having any at all) as bad, or less, or not as good as life that includes regular orgasms. I think many people have tried to tell you that it doesn't work that way. As I recall, someone said that sex with orgasms is good but sex without them is better. As Celtic Queen said in another post, it's counter-intuitive but the men here say that it's true. Maybe husband says the same thing to me (although he doesn't post here).

Using your diet metaphor--many weight loss professionals say we shouldn't use the word "diet." That implies that when you have finished dieting, you can go back to your old way of eating which is a pretty sure fire guarantee of gaining all the weight back. Instead, it is better to say, I am going to change my approach to food: smaller portions, cutting way down on fats, eating more fruits and vegetables, cutting back on meat-based protein. If you do these things you'll lose weight and because your eating habits have fundamentally changed, once you reach your goal weight, you'll just keep eating healthy. And if you do this, when you hit your proper weight, your body will stay there, you won't keep losing weight. (This presumes normal healthy eating behaviors, of course).

So, chastity can be similar. You are not going on a diet, you are changing your approach to sex. Instead of saying, "Once I learn how to take care of my wife, I can go back to having orgasms," you say, "Our sex life is better--more active, hotter, more loving--because of this change and we will continue to approach sex from this perspective. Our shared mutual pleasure is the goal." For many men, having an orgasm is no longer part of the shared mutual pleasure equation. Believe it not, the man doesn't feel like he has lost something he needs to go back to. He's happier with this new, better sex life. My husband would say this is true.

D

[Belle]

Jnuts is currently on "reprieve" right now following last nights activities. Yet he continues to say he can never go back to the way we were before. He doesn't want to. The sex is so much better this way!

[thumper]

I agree completely with Dev.

As far as I'm concerned (and can tell), I'll never ever go back to having orgasms whenever I want them ever again and that's OK because, in actuality, this way is better. Let go of the dominant paradigm. Male orgasm does not need to be the purpose of sex and trying to equate its presence with "good" or "better" sex is pointless. I've come to realize now that they're totally optional and actually more than a little counterproductive.

[davidphd1866]

Extremely well said Thumper! I really liked your quote and consider it almost a mantra for chaste husbands/partners:

"Let go of the dominant paradigm. Male orgasm does not need to be the purpose of sex and trying to equate its presence with "good" or "better" sex is pointless."

This ties me back to your question about my wife's participation at the beginning of my year. I think the reason she gave me a perfunctory handjob when I explained to her that the group preferred I begin the year with an orgasm on oct. 31st, she simply no longer really associates my orgasm with sex between her and me. In her mind, the group didn't ask that we have sex....the group asked that I have an orgasm.

David

[Jimi123]

Jimi,

I think your problem is that you keep equating a life of not having regular orgasms (or not having any at all) as bad, or less, or not as good as life that includes regular orgasms. I think many people have tried to tell you that it doesn't work that way. As I recall, someone said that sex with orgasms is good but sex without them is better. As Celtic Queen said in another post, it's counter-intuitive but the men here say that it's true. Maybe husband says the same thing to me (although he doesn't post here).

Using your diet metaphor--many weight loss professionals say we shouldn't use the word "diet." That implies that when you have finished dieting, you can go back to your old way of eating which is a pretty sure fire guarantee of gaining all the weight back. Instead, it is better to say, I am going to change my approach to food: smaller portions, cutting way down on fats, eating more fruits and vegetables, cutting back on meat-based protein. If you do these things you'll lose weight and because your eating habits have fundamentally changed, once you reach your goal weight, you'll just keep eating healthy. And if you do this, when you hit your proper weight, your body will stay there, you won't keep losing weight. (This presumes normal healthy eating behaviors, of course).

So, chastity can be similar. You are not going on a diet, you are changing your approach to sex. Instead of saying, "Once I learn how to take care of my wife, I can go back to having orgasms," you say, "Our sex life is better--more active, hotter, more loving--because of this change and we will continue to approach sex from this perspective. Our shared mutual pleasure is the goal." For many men, having an orgasm is no longer part of the shared mutual pleasure equation. Believe it not, the man doesn't feel like he has lost something he needs to go back to. He's happier with this new, better sex life. My husband would say this is true.

D

It sounds great when you say "shared mutual pleasure" but.... Your a thinker dev. Like most equations it maybe easier if we flip this around. Why would women "need" orgasm? They don't have male plumbing its only about female orgasm / pleasure. Why not picture you in chastity and imagine that Ab (This is all fiction but consider it) decided that now that your focus is on his pleasure and is making him happy and you are happy because he is happy? That letting you out and giving you an orgasm just ruins it.

For me this doesn't add up. Yet, there are couples where the women doesn't orgasm at all. I think this does happen all too often and turning that around maybe not the answer.

The part about taking care of my wife I totally get. For us this is more about taking care of non sexual things. "Caring" for each other. Doing the small things that over several decades have well... not been done for a while. I understand that some men are reporting they are happier in a chaste and non orgasmic state but many more (to me) are pretty hyped up thinking about sex and counting down days. Then finding they are now dealing with PE or are being teased, ruined or just put back in with an ice pack and an evil laugh.

There are so many different motives for denial

Male ones that I think I've picked up on.
Cheating
Performance anxiety (My penis is not pleasing to her)
Submission (Male orgasm is too "MALE")
Feminization (Again, too damned "male")

Female ones
Domination / Control
The "mess" Who really DOES like to sleep on the wet spot?
Anything to get him to shut up about MC!

Maybe outside of this is
The Focus (On her)
The Kink
The Communications (Here is one way to make talking about sex a MUST)

[likes2blocked]

I think your problem is that you keep equating a life of not having regular orgasms (or not having any at all) as bad, or less, or not as good as life that includes regular orgasms.

For me this doesn't add up. Yet, there are couples where the women doesn't orgasm at all. I think this does happen all too often and turning that around maybe not the answer.

This is because you haven't experienced it. First of all, men and women are wired _completely_ differently in this respect, less so in others. Hormones play a significant role in brain development.

I understand you've been having problems with making a CB work - bummer. If you get it worked out, then you'll see how this really works. Also depends on whether your wife is really into this, or just playing along.

[jnuts]

Jimi,

Quit trying to figure out why ice cream tastes good. Just eat it and enjoy.

[justplaying]

Jimi123 has an interesting point. I was trying to get at that reversal a bit in the fiction piece Turn around is fair play...So many of the men on this site began MC to limit masturbation, and in parallel to improve the relationship with their wife. MC then evolves into a new chapter in your sexual experience. What happens when you lock up your man so that he can not have an orgasm without your permission?

Hmmm, let me see... By default his mind starts to move away from the thought of orgasm and into the space of pleasure through intimacy with his key holder. The intimacy ranges from the male wanting to be "nicer" or "do more" (like we were dating is often mentioned) to getting into more rich discussions about the kind of sex you and your partner really want to explore. It's fun. Edging is something my wife and I never did. Now it's part of the routine....and it's amazingly sensual. Is it better than having an orgasm?

Well, it depends on the orgasm. I know that for myself, if I were to masturbate to orgasm every day, by the end of the week my orgasm (often during sex with my wife, would be mediocre at best). Holding off on having an orgasm seems to make the release incredibly more satisfying. Going without an orgasm for a month or longer? I guess I would have to say I don't care about an orgasm as much if I am at least going to get edged in between them. And to be truthful, I find I don't think about satisfying myself as much, I am really into finding new ways to satisfy her. But that has more to do with the fact that her sex drive is lower and her sexual turn on's are fewer (more vanilla) than my own.

But I am interested in the key holders perspective on orgasm. As a male, I do feel that it is important that when my wife and I have sex, she has an orgasm. But I don't care whether I do or not. She however, often feels that she has cheated me of the pleasure that she thinks is related to my orgasm. Perhaps, because when I do orgasm I am very vocal and physical about it : ) She can see, hear and feel a huge difference between my having an orgasm as compared to when she takes me to the edge and I just moan and breath deeply trying not to come.

So, what do the woman have to say about their orgasm? Other then the "brain is wired differently" argument, why don't woman feel the need for orgasm denial? Is it all about how sex and control are viewed in a monogamous relationship? I just don't know...Or perhaps they too have a need for orgasm denial...who's to say....

[Jimi123]

Well... True and good points but I also have never starved - yet I don't need to do that to make a choice to continue to enjoy food. If I went on a fast for a week (or 2) would I enjoy food more? NO DOUBT! But a controlled diet is really what I'm interested in not ahh a (permi) fast....

Is there a level of Chastity that is almost religion like that your seeking???

Edging or teasing are age old ways of making men (and female) enjoy orgasm more pleasing when it happens. Take a vanilla couple where the choice is to be "fucked" as fast as possible so you orgasm or being teased / edged for a while then "gotten off"

Even when your talking vanilla sex I think that at least most of the time both men and women would rather have some kind of build up rather then "wham bam" sex. Thats not to say that there are not times that you just want a quickie. Or am I wrong?

How many couples that come to try MC are doing "edging" or Tease and denial for maybe the first time? Or even just communicating about sex for the first time? Or (sad to say) focusing on female sexual pleasure / orgasm for the first time??? Maybe this is one reason its become popular for some couples that are not cuckolding, sissifying or doing marathon denial or mega kinks.

[likes2blocked]

Well... True and good points but I also have never starved.

Completely different. You _require_ food, water and air. You do not _require_ orgasms. You _desire_ them, which is one of the 3 root causes of suffering!

Like jnuts said, just try it. Once you sort of mechanical problems, obviously.