Jail Bird vs Queens Keep?

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Tom Allen
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Re: Jail Bird vs Queens Keep?

Post by Tom Allen »

Some of you might be surprised that I didn’t mention Security right at the beginning. That is because, based on everything that I’ve read in the last ten years from guys describing their own experiences, if a device is not comfortable or convenient, then they aren’t going to wear it anyway, so the security is moot. By Security, I’m referring to whether or not you can masturbate while wearing the device, and if so, how successfully. While presumably any device will prevent intercourse, many allow some (most?) men some degree of manipulation to the point of orgasm (or at least, something that allows an ejaculation of sorts). For example, the Birdlock failed here because the squishy silicone that made it so comfortable allowed me to manipulate myself enough to have a rather pleasant orgasm. The hard polycarbonate plastic of my CB3000 and CB6000 obviously prevent that, however I need to add the KSD-G3 device to keep from being able to pull out. Other people rely on using tighter cuff rings or opt to get a piercing so they can anchor the end of their penis to the cage.

Why all the trouble? Because men’s genitals are infinitely squishy and variable, and a device that is secure for one man might not be for another. And really,when you come right down to it, men who are into these devices aren’t wearing them because their partners don’t trust them (i.e., they are not for preventing random intercourse); they are wearing them because the enjoy the idea of erotic control. The more inescapable the device, the more believable their internal script when it comes to their willing suspension of disbelief. We want something that allows us to believe more completely in our fantasies of turning over the control of our orgasms, within some limits of reason that we set for ourselves. This is why we’re willing to settle for a fairly comfortable and relatively inexpensive CB6000 instead of a less convenient and much, much more expensive Latowski. So, security is ironically not the most important thing with a chastity device, especially if the wearer properly manages his WSD.


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ChastityNoob
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Re: Jail Bird vs Queens Keep?

Post by ChastityNoob »

Haven't been able to post for a while, but to respond to the last few posts, I feel like maybe I'm being misunderstood so let me just be clear... I'm not looking for a device to be un-defeatable. On the other hand, I do find my JB to be less effective than many people describe, and since this is my first my first stab at a custom device, I'm seeking input from others who have more experience with fit and security.

I'm admittedly new at this, but I'm going to respectfully disagree that a device isn't intended to prevent erections, and at least to some degree, orgasms. That's why they're made and why people spend so much time, effort, and money to find something that works for them. I understand that nothing is 100% effective, but it seems like the right device is at least somewhat effective for most people. Otherwise, why is there a market at all? Do people really spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on chastity devices with the mindset that they're functionally useless? There's plenty of discussion on this board to the contrary.

The argument here seems to be that "no device is 100% effective, therefore you shouldn't care about the effectiveness of a device at all." I fundamentally disagree. You don't leave the doors to your house unlocked just because you know someone could break a window. I'm looking for improvement, not perfection. And again, I feel like lots of people have had more success in this department than I have so far. Anatomy is a factor and maybe nothing will work for me, but I'd like to explore my options before I throw in the towel.

@cagedog, with all due respect, I think you missed the point. I'm not trying to prove anything, and I'm certainly not putting a bunch of time and effort into to defeating a device. No vibrators, no toys, no ingenious methods of stimulating myself - Just an index finger and 30 seconds. I'm not here to start a fight, but I find your comment about spending my time and effort on something better "like my girlfriend" a little condescending. FWIW, we have a pretty healthy sex life... This is something I've become interested in as a matter of fantasy so at the risk of sounding arrogant, I'm not here to solicit relationship advice, and I certainly don't appreciate uninformed comments that suggest I'm not a good partner. My apologies if that's not what you meant, but that's how it reads to me (even after reading it several times).
Tom Allen wrote:"they are wearing them because the enjoy the idea of erotic control. The more inescapable the device, the more believable their internal script when it comes to their willing suspension of disbelief. We want something that allows us to believe more completely in our fantasies of turning over the control of our orgasms, within some limits of reason that we set for ourselves."
I realize that this quote was intended to downplay the importance of a physical device, but I think it actually does a good job of illustrating where I'm coming from. While I'm new to chastity, I'm not new to BDSM so I'm familiar with the balance between fantasy and reality as well as the role that the mind plays in filling the gap. I also understand (and agree with) the point about comfort. But again, this is my first custom device, so if there are adjustments that can be made that might improve my overall experience, I'm interested in learning about them. I'm looking for that balance where a device is secure enough that my mind can run with the fantasy.

Long post, I know... I hope this doesn't come off as being too argumentative. I'm just trying to give a better idea of what I'm thinking. I know plenty of people jump into things like this with lofty expectations, but I don't think I'm being unreasonable.
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TwistedMister
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Re: Jail Bird vs Queens Keep?

Post by TwistedMister »

ChastityNoob wrote:Haven't been able to post for a while, but to respond to the last few posts, I feel like maybe I'm being misunderstood so let me just be clear... I'm not looking for a device to be un-defeatable. On the other hand, I do find my JB to be less effective than many people describe, and since this is my first my first stab at a custom device, I'm seeking input from others who have more experience with fit and security.

I'm admittedly new at this, but I'm going to respectfully disagree that a device isn't intended to prevent erections, and at least to some degree, orgasms. That's why they're made and why people spend so much time, effort, and money to find something that works for them. I understand that nothing is 100% effective, but it seems like the right device is at least somewhat effective for most people. Otherwise, why is there a market at all? Do people really spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on chastity devices with the mindset that they're functionally useless? There's plenty of discussion on this board to the contrary.
Hey Noob, don't fret over opinions that don't coincide with yours and your aims. I know where you're coming from because that's where I'm at too. The 'Holy Grail' for me would be a device that is 100% escape-proof and 100% effective at preventing orgasm. It may not exist, but I'd like to get as close as possible. The same discussion has been here before, and will probably come around again.
You don't leave the doors to your house unlocked just because you know someone could break a window.[\quote]

Haha, maybe not the best analogy, my doors usually *are* unlocked, for that very reason. Someone *could* break the window...or cut a hole in the wall with a big saw...and there would be no one to see or hear it (if we weren't home). Somebody who wants in is going to get in, damage will just cost me more money. Few people lock their doors here, except to avoid friendly neighbors wandering in while they're having sex.
Tom Allen wrote:"they are wearing them because the enjoy the idea of erotic control. The more inescapable the device, the more believable their internal script when it comes to their willing suspension of disbelief. We want something that allows us to believe more completely in our fantasies of turning over the control of our orgasms, within some limits of reason that we set for ourselves."
I realize that this quote was intended to downplay the importance of a physical device, but I think it actually does a good job of illustrating where I'm coming from.
Not to downplay, Tom is right on the money (as he so often is), and intended to support your point.
Long post, I know...I'm just trying to give a better idea of what I'm thinking. I know plenty of people jump into things like this with lofty expectations, but I don't think I'm being unreasonable.
Some people occasionally need reminders that we don't all go at this the same way.
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04/07/19 "And then I 'punished' you by making you lick my pussy after I let my other 'boy' fuck me." --Mrs. Twisted
ChastityNoob
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Re: Jail Bird vs Queens Keep?

Post by ChastityNoob »

Thanks TwistedMister. I do appreciate everyone's input but as with most things, I don't believe there is one "right" way.

Point taken about locking the doors. What I'm trying to say is that you can never make your house 100% secure either, but that doesn't stop you from making it as secure as possible within reason. I think the same applies here.

FWIW, I agree with Tom Allen's post... I guess it's open to interpretation just how much effort should be put into security, and a lot depends on the person. I've had enough experience with discomfort to understand how important it is. Along the same lines, hygiene and discretion are other factors that determine how "wearable" a device is. So far I'd rate my Jailbird highly in the wearable department... I'm just hoping to improve on security as well.

I'm planning to get the extra bar across the bottom of my glans... Seems like a no brainer to me. That's easily my most sensitive spot and I don't see any downside except for the cost to add it.

The biggest problem I'm having with fit seems be that the cage slides down sometimes. A similar experience with my CB-6000s led me down one ring size and up one gap spacer for a more secure (and comfortable) fit. My current JB ring size is the same as my CB, but I'm thinking I need to go down one more ring size on the JB. Then there's the question of whether I should also increase the gap one size... That worked for me before, and I might need the extra space after I downsize my ring.

I'm also wondering if a double ring helps to keep the cage from sliding down...
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cagedog
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Re: Jail Bird vs Queens Keep?

Post by cagedog »

I apologize if what I wrote implied anything about the frequency of your sexual activity or ability with your wife. I simply meant that much of the "process" is in your own minds quest for denial/control. I agree that we all have different needs in terms of a truly inescapable cage that won't let us orgasm.

As for the JB downsizing 1/8 inch and double ring. I recently did both to solve the problem of the ring slipping down too far (it happens after 4 years of stretching). It works well (William is on his third ring and considering 4!). It will add weight, but I also dropped the length a little so don't really notice. If you don't have a set of the test rings, I strongly recommend you get them. Also, pushing a testicle through a double ring is definitely more difficult than through a single ring.
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Re: Jail Bird vs Queens Keep?

Post by ChastityNoob »

No hard feelings @cagedog, and thanks for the input. I do have the sizing rings and I'm testing out the next size down. I actually went back and forth between two sizes originally and settled on the larger. I have some minimal comfort issues with the smaller size but I might just need to get used it. I do think I'll need to increase the gap... Doesn't seem like I have a lot of room to spare.

I'm debating on the double-ring. The smaller ring already seems like it will be difficult to get on/off. How much benefit do you think the double ring provides in terms of preventing sliding? I can always add it later...
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wishful4
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Re: Jail Bird vs Queens Keep?

Post by wishful4 »

A small difference in ring sizes made a huge difference for me. I ordered a 1- 3/4 inch base ring because the 1- 7/8 inch was starting to slip during times when my genitals were relaxed. However, the smaller was very uncomfortable to wear at certain times when things were not as relaxed. I asked MM to stretch the 1- 3/4 inch to 1/16 inch larger and that made all the difference in the world. It was still snug at times but not so much it caused pain and I eventually got used to it. Now I think I could probably deal with the 1-3/4 inch ring and may get one soon. As they say, "baby steps".
Last edited by wishful4 on Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cagedog
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Re: Jail Bird vs Queens Keep?

Post by cagedog »

I dropped an 1/8 inch and went double all in one (I was wearing the 1-7/8 for three plus years and it was really slipping most times), so I can't attest to the effect of simply using a double ring. I am thinking I should have also had a single 1-3/4 made for colder weather. It does seem that in addition to reducing slippage, everything doesn't quite twist as well when you move or lie about. Not a big problem if you can make an adjustment without a bunch of people staring strangely at you. The double is oval and definitely harder to get a testicle through than the single round test ring. And testicles have funny ways of changing size. I have struggled (actually gave up once) to put it on and think, what if when I want/have to take it off, one of the boys is just a little too chubby? I think sitting in a good hot bath for a few minutes and some soap would do the trick, but that might not be available at the time.

Just an aside that is also appropriate for the "summer sagging" and other such posts. Keep your old rings! I know there's an issue with matching gap sizes, but if you drop down ring size only, the gap will match pretty well - or can be made to do so. Even with the additional cage adjustment I did, the gap is pretty similar so I still use my 1-7/8 at times and probably will more so with the winter coming.
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Re: Jail Bird vs Queens Keep?

Post by ChastityNoob »

I think I'll stick with the single ring for now in the interest of making incremental changes. I was going to drop 1/8" to 1 5/8, but I had forgotten about the option to have a ring stretched to a 1/16" increment. Now I'm not sure if I should drop 1/16 or a full 1/8. I guess I could start with 1/8 and have it stretched if necessary, but not the other way around? Can a ring be resized (and how much does it cost?) or do you need to actually purchase a new one each time?
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Re: Jail Bird vs Queens Keep?

Post by wishful4 »

ChastityNoob wrote:I think I'll stick with the single ring for now in the interest of making incremental changes. I was going to drop 1/8" to 1 5/8, but I had forgotten about the option to have a ring stretched to a 1/16" increment. Now I'm not sure if I should drop 1/16 or a full 1/8. I guess I could start with 1/8 and have it stretched if necessary, but not the other way around? Can a ring be resized (and how much does it cost?) or do you need to actually purchase a new one each time?
MM will stretch a base ring for $10, I think. Email them to be sure. You will probably need to send the cage in, as well, so they can make sure the gap is still correct.
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