The Slippery Slope

Living the real life under lock and key

The Slippery Slope

Postby likes2blocked » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:32 pm

There was a bit of a heated discussion over on Dev's blog http://devotedlvr.wordpress.com/2010/10/30/quotes-from-ab-xii/ because she'd said that she was coming to realize that she's actually in a Female Led Relationship (FLR), but that the term was an issue because it had connotations of behavior she considers extreme. There's an interesting discussion in the comments, with back and forth on both sides.

I wanted to toss this out for discussion, but wanted to also establish some things to start with - there's a difference between saying "not for me", and "you're weird if you do that". To use a mundane example, I don't eat beef, but will cook a steak for my wife. Just because I or someone else says "not for me" doesn't mean I'm being judgmental. There are things that go a bit further - something that's often said in the BDSM worlds is "Safe, Sane and Consensual". If it isn't safe or consensual, then there's a problem. Sane is kind of a grey area - I'm sure people think some of the things we do aren't all sane.

To be clear, while I do realize that FLR does have a whole range of practices, ranging from an assertive woman who makes her needs known and gets them taken care of, which I consider very healthy, it also goes all the way out to some areas I'm not comfortable with. For example, while reading some of the posts on http://www.she-makes-the-rules.com/, I ran across statements along the lines of "he doesn't get an opinion" and "the man should just unquestioningly accept what she says" - I'm completely not up for that. I don't go for it when it is men doing that to women, either. That's not consensual.

IMHO, putting someone else in charge of some important aspect of your life, such as your orgasms, is clearly a power exchange, and that qualifies to me as a submissive act. One of the things I've observed in the progression of things with keyhldr (my wife) is that she's gotten a lot more comfortable with the domme side of herself, and so we've been doing more of that - really mild by many standards - some spanking, etc. Maybe we'll keep exploring down that direction, but I think there's certainly some limits - for one thing, we have more of a partnership marriage, not an autocracy. That's not going to change.

So I think chastity play does indeed wake up a woman to the idea that being in charge can be fun, and it's easy to explore a bit. So we're on a slippery slope - just how slippery is it?

Thoughts?
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Re: The Slippery Slope

Postby thumper » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:00 pm

I haven't read her post (yet), but it seems to me that of course, when the women gets to decide when the man gets to come (or even have access to his cock) that their relationship is being led by a female. Technically speaking, it's just the sex part of their relationship, but I know from experience that it tends to bleed out into other parts.
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Re: The Slippery Slope

Postby Belle » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:19 pm

I know we are much newer to the MC lifestyle than most here, but it seems to have helped equalized things for us. Jnuts has always wanted me to take more control emotionally (I tend to go along with people I love to make them happy) and MC has helped with that.
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Re: The Slippery Slope

Postby likes2blocked » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:38 pm

Belle wrote:I know we are much newer to the MC lifestyle than most here, but it seems to have helped equalized things for us. Jnuts has always wanted me to take more control emotionally (I tend to go along with people I love to make them happy) and MC has helped with that.


It'll be interesting to see how things change once you've actually got him locked up. What we've seen has been a fairly slow, gradual change, over quite a while.

BTW, I like your blog - neat seeing one that has input from both people.
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Re: The Slippery Slope

Postby Belle » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:44 pm

likes2blocked wrote:
BTW, I like your blog - neat seeing one that has input from both people.


Thanks. As we were exploring the lifestyle, we found blogs with either male or female perspectives, but not both. Hoping it nay help a new couple looking into the lifestyle in the future.
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Re: The Slippery Slope

Postby mykey » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:35 am

Belle that is fantastic! Its great to hear that this is helping equalize things.

When my wife and I started down this path she had always let herself mould to the 'alpha male and female' types around her, including me. It turns out she was never happy in that role, always felt a bit stifled especially emotionally. When we started playing tease and denial games and tickling she started to feel it balance a little bit. Of course feeling more like an equal made her feel much better about herself and emotionally she became much happier.

In her case it turns out she is actually very dominant. She likes to be in control more than not, and had been unhappy and had not really blossomed as a woman all those years. That was partly why (other reason being repression due to her upbringing). Eventually, after several years of marriage we fell into me being submissive in a bedroom game and found she loved it. Over the last three years for us it's become a lifestyle and she feels so much happier I  can't believe she is the same woman. She has blossomed in a way that makes me ever so happy, and even her friends have noticed. 

Turns our she never was that slightly submissive character who enjoyed moulding herself to the people around her, but neither she nor I had any inkling until we started playing. 

Of course I may have become submissive to her and let her have the final say in most things but I am still at heart that forceful strong guy I was. I have chosen to give her my submission but day to day we are still normal, she listens to what I have to say as do i, and if I Feel very strongly about something I don't just back down without talking to her. We are respectfully equal to each other, but I will do as she asks when she asks most of the time because that makes us both happy.

It turns out she is very kinky but had been very repressed. What we get up to now sexually would be considered out there by society. This was not an inevitable slide, I was always kinky and she found she was once she started to shake off her childhood repression. It doesn't have to go as far, but it suited us.

To answer the original post though, I think the slope is a bit slippery. Once a person let's themselves go in the bed room i think it becomes easier to do more. Also once you get used to being a bit more in control it's easier to do more. Like thumper said it bleeds into other areas a bit. Only as far as you want it to though.
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Re: The Slippery Slope

Postby Dev » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:51 am

I don't believe there is a slippery slope. The problem is, there are things out there on the Internet that would make you believe that there is a slope, it's very slippery, and was you start going down it, there's no going back. That is what annoys me and why I started a blog: to try to get another point of view out there.

Let's take a few examples.

"I woke up this morning and discovered my wife had locked a chastity device on me. She tells me she is never taking it off!" Okay, this one is pretty easy to detect with the bullshit meter. Having helped my husband put a variety of different chastity devices on over the past few months, there is no way that a woman could do this to a sleeping man and not wake him up. Not even a stone drunk, passed out sleeping man. Getting the device on requires too much manipulation of a guy's cock and balls for him to sleep through it. Period.

"My husband is undergoing a program of forced feminization and part of that includes him wearing a chastity device." This one is a little more subtle. I would assume that the husband has agreed to this program and is participating as a consenting adult. Problem is, blogs like this don't show the consent part and instead focus on the "forced." So, can you see how that might be a little distressing? No matter which way you look at it: 1) if we play with chastity, a woman will be "forced" to feminize or husband, whether she wants to or not; or 2) if we play with chastity, my husband will want to be feminized but I don't think that is sexy or hot.

"I put a chastity device on my husband and suddenly, my world changed. I realized I was Mistress Athena, he was my slutty-boy slave and nothing would ever be the same!" Again, I don't think worlds change with the click of a Masterlock and if it does, why doesn't it change back when the Masterlock is unclicked? Unfortunately, blogs like this focus on the "forced" part (or, with slaves, there seems to be a great deal of punishment going on). The mutual consent gets lost in the noise and the result, to an uninitiated reader can be distressing, IMHO.

Then we get to the big C: "Because I am craving cock and my husband is locked up, I have to go out and find myself a manly-man to service me." This is the one that gets thrown around most often as being truly inevitable and I think the reason for that is that it is fueled by so many men's fantasies--or at least the vocal men. As Tom Allen said to me yesterday in an email, "Am I the only man left on earth who is not turned on by the idea of his wife having sex with another man?" No Tom, you're not. My husband tells me it is not a fantasy of his or at least not one he focuses on very often, if at all. And me? I am not interested in finding someone else to be with. Yes, I have had dalliances in the past (and this was long before chastity and done with my husband's knowledge and agreement) and while it was fun, there's a fair amount of emotional upheaval that accompanies the experience--even when you go into it with eyes wide open, as they say. I just don't have the energy for that emotional drama at this point in my life. I am happy with the way things are just between the two of us and two of us will remain the status quo--even with him wearing a chastity device. If I want cock, easy enough to do. Unlock the lock. Simple!

I do think that what chastity can do is open up new possibilities to a couple. Once you take traditional intercourse off the table as a regular event, you may find that you are willing to try new things and be a little more adventurous. But this is done with mutual consent and if something doesn't quite work as expected then no need to repeat it. Like I said, no slippery slope, just experimenting and having fun.

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Re: The Slippery Slope

Postby jnuts » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:58 am

I concur. I have agreed to cuckolding only if the man my wife is fucking is a genetic clone of myself and we must kill him immediately afterwards. I would be totally cool with that I think.

Otherwise, no.

I don't think this will be possible for a while.
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Re: The Slippery Slope

Postby mykey » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:57 am

I don't think that one has to be afraid of things racing out of control. To admit that one thing could lead to another does not mean it will. Everything is done consensually, in the end nobody sane sticks around to be abused. 

But it would also be a mistake to say that things don't lead on. They usually do, in all areas of life. People evolve, life is often about change. Thing is, we aren't dumb agents, we guide our evolution as adults. In the end we do what we want and enjoy. 

forget cuckolding and sissification. This seems to be linked somehow to chastity. Why? Because the porn sites have got on the bandwagon. Try to find chastity porn without an angry looking woman and a loser of a guy and you will struggle. It's of no consequence. For a while all you could see was fake breasts on tv as in porn. But most people did not go out and insert half melons in their chest. 

Let's not worry about what others have done and set out on our own adventures, and a million different adventures will play out. 
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Re: The Slippery Slope

Postby mykey » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:02 am

Oh and likes2blocked? You are a stirrer :) You knew this subject would raise the excitement level, lol!

Dev is right that the stuff on the Internet can give a very bad impression. I would hope that it's a passing fad, this obsession with linking chastity to weakness in the submissive partner. It's fairly recent that it has happened, the last few years at most. It didn't used to be when I first read about it. One of my favourite stories was Victoria's seed on altairboy. It was fun, loving and playful. Above all else the problem occurs when fantasy is held up as reality. All too common on some forums. Where I agree completely with dev is the need to make it clear that these 'real' stories are mostly badly written fiction held up as fact. Until a newcomer develops their bullshit radar they can find it scary or unappealing. Also anyone new to bdsm can see some extreme acts out of the loving context in which they are applied, again it takes time to develop that discernment and people get put off before they get there.
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